与教官的一些通信

管制中心 管制员交流
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大家知道，即使你满分通过各管制级别的理论考试，在管制实践中，仍然会遇到一些问题，这些问题用你已经学到的理论无法答复。而培训一般仅仅是该席位对知识的最基本要求，不可能全面覆盖。那么在管制的实践和学习过程中，就会不断地出现问题，寻求答案，然后不断进步。

 

我们大部分来自非航空领域，作为一个业余爱好，没有人敢说 “我全知道了” ，因此有问题，向前辈老手请教问题是一个很正常的学习手段。

 

我们都有自己的强项和薄弱环节，即使一个C3级别的管制员，在某一点上，可能一个S1知道的更清楚。所以大家在学习中以一个开明的心态，包容的态度探讨问题，提高的会更快。

 

本人在VATPAC学习和实践管制的过程中，也遇到很多问题，正确的态度是不要心中留有疑问，要想办法解决掉这些疑问。因此在学习中遇到解不开的问题，都会向教官请教。幸运的是教官们都非常热情和耐心地解答问题，受益匪浅。

 

现在我会在下面陆续贴出和教官的一些email通信，相信对有类似问题的同仁有所帮助。

 

通信中的错别字和错误语句不做更改，原样贴出。

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

未完待续，敬请期待，谢谢

 

 

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以CTRL+D

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Hi XXX,

 

The other day I was observing XXX , who manned APP at Perth Int’l. I heared the following instructions issued by him:

 

ABC, track direct to XXX, cleared for visual approach, rwy XX, report established on localizer.

 

I was confused: if app cleared an ac for visual app, why he requested ac report established on localizer. Since the approach is visual, to my understand, the ac should navigated depend on ground（mountains, rivers…etc) not on localizer. If relys on localizer, then it is not a visual. It should be an instrument approach.

 

I did asked him about this when he’s free. He said it’s 100% acceptable for visual app to use localizer. Even in VFR when landing, it’s still acceptable to use ILS approach. If this is the case, why now directly clear the ac for an ILS approach?

 

When I make ATIS, the similar question always haunts me. Well, if I say, ILS APCH in ATIS, how about a VFR using visual app for landing. Should VFR aircraft be banned from landing? or that VFR ac must use ILS for landing? or the ac can still proceed with visual app even if you state ILS app in use?

 

On the other hand, if I stipulate Visual app in use, how about an ac wants to use ILS for landing? Should he use ILS anyway, no matter what you said in ATIS, or he must use visual to comply with op procedure in ATIS?

 

Here’s come my confusion, if ILS app in use and an ac is still allowed for visual app (say a VFR ac, or the ac doesn’t has ILS equipment, or whatever reason the ac just can not fly ILS), or visual app in use but an ac has to use ILS for landing. What is the meaning to specify app type in ATIS?? Does is make any sense to say ILS/Visual App in use? ac will proceed with app based on its own capacity anyway.

 

And when we decide what op should be use, I mean in VMC and no extreme weather, visual or ILS? Which on gives us more flexibility?

 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Cheers

 

Sam

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Hi Sam, Good questions and I will try to answer them for you. If it is CAVOK then your ATIS would normally show VIS APP in your ATIS and the final clearance is for a VIS APP. Some of the heavier jets are placed on the presumed extended runway CTR line at 15nm out and they cannot visually see the runways and so ATC will get them established on the LOC so that they will proceed along the LOC until VIS with the field. At this time they continue on the VIS APP and the instruction from ATC can be something like this. SAC, position 3nm left of 34L LOC, turn left hdg 010, join the LOC 34L then cleared for the VIS APP 34L, report established on final. SAC, position 3nm left of 34L LOC, turn left hdg 010,descend to 3000ft, cleared ILS app then VIS APP when visual. Both the above examples can be used and are correct and are used for aircraft with an IFR flight plan in VMC In the case of a VFR aircraft, you cannot ask them to establish on LOC as you cannot presume they have an ILS system on board. These aircraft are instructed to make a VIS APP from downwind or base or whatever suits the controller. If your ATIS has ILS APP in use and the cloud base is low such OVC@ 008 for example then VFR aircraft would need to divert to another field. If you have VIS APP in use in the ATIS it is acceptable for an aircraft to request the ILS APP. VIS APP in the ATIS gives the most flexibility. Hope this helps, Regards XXX

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同一个问题，另一位教官的答复： And a very good question may I add. It’s very common for aircraft (especially airline traffic) to use localiser (and glideslope) for a visual approach. In fact for most airlines it’s procedure to use the most accurate nav aid available for the the approach. While not technically correct phraseology with what you herd, the controller is using the phrase “report established on the localiser” for situational awareness so he can be reminded to transfer the aircraft to TWR ( I would assume) The correct phraseology would be “Cleared visual approach, (circuit entry instructions optional), report established on final.” Being cleared to become established on the localiser does not constitute an approach clearance. So although the aircraft is using the localiser, they may not be cleared for an approach, in this case they are being cleared the visual approach. Personally I would recommend, “abc cleared visual app, report established on final.” Or “abc cleared ils report visual.” Then cleared visual apch when they report Visual The step from TWR to TMA I personally feel is the biggest step, there is alot to learn about MVA, MSA, LSALT’s, different classes of airspace and how each of them work, vectoring, sequencing and a whole heap more. All this is covered in the MOODLE section but the transition I found from TMA to CTR was alot easier. So without going into it too much in regards to VFR aircraft flying in non VMC- Aircraft that are operating (by day) as VFR where VMC does not exist can be issued with SVFR (Special VFR) by CTR for the purpose of entering or leaving the CTR. This is covered more in ENR 1.2.1http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip/current/aip/enroute.pdfHope this helps. Please let me know if you require any further help on this matter Regards XXX

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另一个问题： Hi XXX, It’s me again. Got a question from my obs and controlling experience as TMA controller. While OBS SY_APP, I found controllers seldom use distance to run when vectoring ac’s to final. We know for most of the SY SID’s ending with vectoring to final. According to MOODLE tranning, we need to provide “distance to run” to the pilot to facilitate they planning of decend profile. In all my OBS sessions, APP assigned decend levels to pilot. So pilot desn’t need to plan his own profile for decend. At this situation, none of APP I observed giving a “distance to run” information. Here’s my understanding, correct me if I’m wrong: When vectoring an a/c to final, at the same time, assign a decend level, we don’t need to provide “distance to run” since controller is reponsible for the decend. If when vectoring an a/c without assginning a decend level, giving something like “when ready, decent to 3000ft”, then we must provide distance to run information for pilots to prepare their decending. However, I have never seen this situation happened in my OBS sessions. Thanks in advance. cheers Sam

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注意回答错把STAR写成了SID

 

Hi Sam,

 

I’m not to sure about the altitude side of things and whether it comes into play or not, but my understanding is that Under radar vectors, “the full route is not known to the pilot, which makes it difficult to calculate an appropriate descent profile. Providing an approximate distance to run when vectoring an aircraft allows pilots to plan and execute their descent”

Therefore, anytime you take an A/C off a SID and provide vectors for final, a distance to run should be issued. Even at a Melbourne if you were to take an aircraft of a SID (keeping in mind SIDS at Melb finish at the initial approach fix) then you should provide distance to run info. By giving an aircraft “descend to 3000ft”, means that he cannot descend below that assigned altitude, but can better manage his descent profile knowing how far he has to travel to touchdown.

I think what you will find is that alot of controllers don’t do this because they forget or they get to busy, but I would say mostly because they have forgotten that they are required to pass on this information.

Hope this helps

 

Regards

 

XXX

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G’day XXX,

 

It’s been a while. Hope everything goes well for you.

 

Got a few questions for you, Greg.

 

The other day I was on BIK_CTR. There’s a VFR departing from SY to Orange, via KAT. I gave him airway clearance (VFR type of cause), pushback approval, taxi clearance and takeoff clearance. Untile now, all the process were similar like the way handle IFR. Once he airborne and properly identifed, I gave him this instruction " Climb to FLxx, maintain visual seperation, there’s no traffic in your area". At that time, he’s the only one in the area. Greg, was my instruction right? I know in class C, we don’t need to seperate VFR from other VFR. And at that moment, there’s no other aircraft in the area. So I think just let him fly on his own and if applicable, just provide traffi information.

 

I’m not sure about what I did is correct because XXX was there that day, doing a post assessment for me. He pointed out the instruction I gave was not correct. It shoule be something like this after identifed: “Climb to FLxx, track direct to KAT…” It appeard to me it’s exaclty the same way we handle IFR.

 

Please clarify me

 

Another thing I was a little confused is TWR. So TWR depend on what on earth to observe the traffic. Before, I believe TWR basically use visual observation to assit his/her work. And it’s quite logic why they need a physical TOWER. And it also explains why TWR doesn’t not track an aircraft since he has no way to do so.

 

Untile yesterday, I was reviewing our moodle twr couse. In the section Service delivery awereness, it explains the difference between a radar trw and procedural twr. The artical gives me a strong hint that radar twr depends on radar prints to get situational awereness.While procedural twr depend on redio com or visual (when ac visable).

 

So here’s my second question, On what a radar twr depend to obtain flight information?

 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Sam

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Hi Sam,

 

Thanks for the questions. It’s important that when these question crop up you get them clarified so good on you for doing that. J

 

Question 1:

I think the angle that James is coming from is eliminating unnecessary transmissions and information. Let’s break it down…

 

  • VFR aircraft in Class C Airspace. This essentially means nothing, there is no change to how you process this aircraft (you have correctly identified this) aside from the fact that you will NOT be providing separation for this aircraft.
  • “Maintain Visual Separation” is not required. He’s VFR, he’s required to do that at all times and does not need to be reminded to do it by ATC. There is no time where he would be provided separation by some other means, so there is no change in his conditions.
  • “There is no traffic in your area” is not required. If there was traffic in his area you would be telling him about it. This is not a huge issue in a quiet TMA but during busy times you could imagine if you gave traffic info to everyone rather than those who really needed it, things would get quite congested.

 

So as you see although what you gave was not wrong, it was unnecessary, which can get you into trouble if things are busy. During the quiet times, always try to provide the correct service using correct phraseology and this will help you to provide that service more automatically when it’s busy.

 

Example Process:

  • VFR calls for clearance, taxies and takes off runway 16R at YSSY bound for Orange via Katoomba. ”ABC, cleared for take-off, make right turn.”
  • The visual departure involves a right turn onto track and as the aircraft makes the turn the pilot calls airborne and is identified by ATC. In the absence of any restrictions given by ATC, the pilot will make a right turn to intercept a track SY DIRECT KATOOMBA (note: Not simply turn right from wherever they left runway heading and track DCT to KAT).
  • Should you have no requirements for that aircraft to track to intercept the SY DCT KAT track, you can give the instruction “Track direct KAT.” Which authorises the pilot to simply take up a track from present position direct to KAT. Are you clear on the difference here?

 

Question 2:

The Moodle refers to a Radar Tower as a tower that has an overlying approach service and thus owns no airspace. Examples of a radar tower are Sydney, Melbourne, Cairns, Brisbane, Adelaide, Perth, Darwin, Canberra.

 

A procedural tower owns some airspace around it, typically 30nm and up to 4500ft or 8500ft.This airspace does not have the benefit of radar to separate traffic and therefore provides a procedural service based on pilot reports. Examples of procedural towers are Launceston, Hobart, Tamworth, Coffs Habour, Albury, Rockhampton, Alice Springs, Mackay.

 

Does this address your questions?

 

If not or if you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate to email me.

 

Regards

XXX

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Hi XXX，

 

Thanks very much for your explanation.

 

I think I’m cleared of some confussion.

 

For the second question, can we conclude that a Radar Tower is so called because approach radar service covers the area where tower exists. But Radar Tower is still based on his visual observation to perform his duty.

 

Thanks again.

 

Cheers

 

Sam

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Hi Sam,

 

Yes and no. The radar approach service covers the area but the tower controller is not completely reliant on visual observation. Most if not all towers have some form of surveillance for situational awareness however they will not use the surveillance for providing separation.

 

This is why when simulating a procedural tower online we can still use the radar display to gain a picture of the situation, however we must not use radar separation standards and resort to procedural or visual standards.

 

XXX